A UFC 131 Question: Should Wittman Have Thrown the Towel In for Shane Carwin?
by David Castillo on Jun 13, 2011 10:51 AM EDT
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It's not an easy question. But it's a question that needs to be considered. It needs to be a part of the dialogue between trainers. Should Shane Carwin have been allowed to step to the center of the cage for round 2 against Junior Dos Santos? First thing's first: the question of whether Carwin should have been allowed to continue after round 1 is not a question specific to this fight.
I'm not concerned with this particular case so much as I'm concerned about the broader context, and its implications. When Ariel Helwani interviewed Dana White, and asked him whether the fight should have been stopped in the 1st, Dana was brief, and to the point:
Obviously it went three rounds, so Herb Dean was right.
Because it went three rounds? This is the logic most people follow, and it is also impressively wrong (the logic more than Dana's application of it in Carwin' case). Just months ago, we had a counterexample articulated for us in broken orbital bones in the Georges St. Pierre vs. Josh Koscheck fight. Koscheck has been inactive for some time, and will suffer the effects of his broken orbital bone for years: it's possible whatever long term damage he's likely to suffer from will be a direct result of the doctors, and trainers not doing their job. That fight should have been stopped, and few people will argue otherwise.
The Shane Carwin fight exists on a scale that provides a more nuanced context, but looking at Carwin's posture on his stool after round 1, it was obvious whatever Wittman was saying simply wasn't registering with Shane. His posture was of a beaten man, and his faculties severely reduced.
The idea of stopping a prizefight is unpopular for obvious reasons. And they're reasons I sympathize with: part of what makes a truly great fight is drama, and drama is measured in the type of violence Dos Santos enacted on Carwin. We compromise that drama in suggesting victory where it has not yet officially been achieved. But we also compromise a fighter's safety.
To what degree is a fighter's safety important to us though? Do we really care, or are we simply paying lipservice? Will we establish precedent, or will we continue to speak with limitations to our level of concern, afraid we're being overly conscious in a sport that many assume requires a minimum level of conscientiousness?
I understand that it takes a different kind of commitment to compete in MMA. Not on some personal level, obviously, but I know that there are certain things you have to disregard to not just be a fighter, but to be a successful one. And for trainers, you kind of have to look at pain, or injury as necessary limitations in the hypermasculine culture of fight sport: this is a vital part of MMA, and it's felt with every punch, slam, and submission. But pain and injury are not figments of psychology. They are components of physiology. If we really care about the fighters, I'd hope these would be questions we'd consider rather than ignore.
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Nicely done, though I’ll point out that what you call “figments of psychology” are real and are also physiological. The subject matter of psychology takes place in the brain.
I think Dean was right not to stop the fight, because Carwin didn’t stop defending himself. But the ref is only going to stop the fight if one fighter is physically unable to continue, and he’s not the only person who has a responsibility to protect the fighters. Obviously you are correct that there is tremendous pressure on fighters and trainers to keep the fight going no matter what. Since Carwin was still able to fight, he quite conceivably could have won the match with a few punches. Given that there was no chance that anyone was going to throw in the towel.
I think the really major fail was on the part of the physician who examined Carwin during the match. He told Carwin he was going to check his peripheral vision, and then wiggled his fingers around toward the side of Carwin’s head, asking him if he could see that. I don’t know if Carwin could see it or not, but he is culturally and financially motivated to lie in the situation if necessary, and I wonder if the doctor was extremely naive or if he was also under a great deal of pressure not to end the fight.
I think this is two major fails by Canadian athletic commissions in the last three UFCs, the other being on the part of the inspector in Toronto who apparently could not hear GSP saying he could not see AT ALL out of one eye.
Good post
Nicely done, though I’ll point out that what you call "figments of psychology" are real and are also physiological. The subject matter of psychology takes place in the brain.
I know. Typically, however, coaches and trainers like to address “pain” as something abstract, which is what I should have said.
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by David Castillo on Jun 14, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I wrote an article about a similar couple of situations back in ‘09. It’s often on my mind. The mentality of a fighter is such a unique thing, I think that corners have a very real responsibility to protect the fighter – if sometimes from themselves – and it’s a responsibility that easily can be lost in the need to also support and push the fighter.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
The structure of the sport tends to let fighters go on longer than they should
I think back to the Pacquiao/Cotto fight. By the last 3rd of the fight, Cotto was beaten and just taking unreal punishment. He would’ve made it to the final bell, no doubt, but the predictability of that fight over its last minute was made clear by the 11 rounds that had transpired and a lucid understanding of what Pacquaio was going to do for the rest of the round. Kenny Bayless was right to step in, even though Cotto’s corner had no intention of throwing in the towel and Cotto would’ve made it to the bell no matter what.
MMA’s only three/five rounds and the wide variety of techniques at play tilts the cards away from a stoppage more often than not, I think.
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Bid every care withdraw;
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I too thought of Pac/Cotto when reading this article. There’s no denying that between the refs and the corner, boxing fights are considerably more likely to be waved off because a fighter has just clearly had enough. I think part of it is, as you said, the fact that there is a greater chance of that Silva/Sonnen style last minute Hail Mary in MMA. But I also wonder if the fact that boxing has been around for awhile so refs and cornermen have seen the long term impact of some of these beatings plays a part.
Nice article and very insightful comments!
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by Fraser Coffeen on Jun 13, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i wish the towel was thrown in the second round
the beating made me freak out, it’s the first time since the arona-saku fight i’ve felt that way
Probably so,
however… i am not a fighter, a cornerman, a referee, or a doctor. I’m curious to know the general consensus among professionals who are or have been involved in this sport first hand, people who have much greater insight into the sport than I. I do believe that a fighters safety and longevity in the sport should take top priority. The subject is definitely one that needs to be discussed more openly. And finally, if the towel had been thrown in for Shane Carwin, I don’t think we would have seen him protest, despite his tremendous heart.
Probably.
But what really burns me is that Strikeforce stopped the Fedor/Silva fight for a much less problematic injury — one that makes Carwin’s eyeball vagina look like a mosquito bite.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Jun 14, 2011 12:58 AM EDT reply actions
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